[QUOTE=Jon]Rev, so 2d platformers weren't cool from the N64 to the Wii? ROFL. [/QUOTE]
THIS makes you ROFL?
Simple minds...
And actually, no, they weren't "cool". At least to the general game buying public. It took a long time for people to realize that pushing the 3D envelope did not always translate into more fun, and I think Nintendo was the key to reminding people that FUN is what matters, especially when they released New Super Mario Wii.
Wii U's Overemphasis on 2d gaming
-
Jon1
- Posts: 378
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Wii U's Overemphasis on 2d gaming
Paul, there wasn't a 2d Super Mario game released during the 5th and 6th gen, so there's no way you can say they weren't "cool", besides speculation. I already posed this question and no one seems to want to answer it. From all indications, a 2d Super Mario game would have sold like hotcakes during that time period. So basically, Nintendo wasn't giving the fans what they wanted, (I hope you read this, Steer). It's incredibly irresponsible to come to any conclusions on what the "public" wanted with such a lack of information. Again, I look forward to someone answering my question instead of assuming, incredibly irresponsibly, what the public wanted.
-
m0zart1
- Posts: 3117
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Wii U's Overemphasis on 2d gaming
[QUOTE=Paul123][QUOTE=Jon]Rev, so 2d platformers weren't cool from the N64 to the Wii? ROFL. [/QUOTE]
THIS makes you ROFL?
Simple minds...
And actually, no, they weren't "cool". At least to the general game buying public. It took a long time for people to realize that pushing the 3D envelope did not always translate into more fun, and I think Nintendo was the key to reminding people that FUN is what matters, especially when they released New Super Mario Wii. [/QUOTE]
There was a definite bias against 2D gaming at the time, and a lot of it was in the public, or at the very least perceived to be in the public. It wasn't a personal decision in any sense, but a business one through and through: it was perceived, even interpolated by industry analysts, that 3D gaming was going to be a critically important, even dominating, influence in the industry. and each competitor had to have felt a need to invest most of their resources into it as it was emerging into the console world, to gain or keep a competitive advantage. Sony even had a policy against 2D games for the first two years of the PS1, causing them to reject several entries from 3rd parties which were 2D. They did allow the odd entry, specifically games around launch, presumably to beef up their launch titles, but they held a clear operating preference for 3D games. Nintendo purposefully designed the N64 to be primarily a polygonal 3D system, and didn't seem to anticipate an on-going popularity in 2D games on consoles, at least not while the 3D "revolution" was going on. Clearly they felt there was still life in the genre for handhelds, but their design decisions on the N64 were very clearly geared with polygonal 3D as its core.
It wasn't really Sony or Nintendo that changed that perception that 2D was an era of the past, at least on consoles. It was basically 3rd party developers that really changed the attitude against 2D games. Rayman was a successful platformer on the PS1. Though it was released for other platforms too, its PS1 incarnation sold about 3 million worldwide. Konami's Castlevania: Symphony of the Night released in 1997 sold about 1.25 million worldwide, with nearly 1 million of those being in the US and Europe. The success of those games, and the cultural popularity of games like Symphony of the Night over their 3D rivals (such as the N64's misunderstood and shamefully under-appreciated Castlevania 64 title), caused Sony to reconsider its criteria and allow more 2D entries, and they affected Nintendo's future developments as well: the N64's successor, the Gamecube, had options built into its design to simplify 2D game development which simply were not available on the N64.
THIS makes you ROFL?
Simple minds...
And actually, no, they weren't "cool". At least to the general game buying public. It took a long time for people to realize that pushing the 3D envelope did not always translate into more fun, and I think Nintendo was the key to reminding people that FUN is what matters, especially when they released New Super Mario Wii. [/QUOTE]
There was a definite bias against 2D gaming at the time, and a lot of it was in the public, or at the very least perceived to be in the public. It wasn't a personal decision in any sense, but a business one through and through: it was perceived, even interpolated by industry analysts, that 3D gaming was going to be a critically important, even dominating, influence in the industry. and each competitor had to have felt a need to invest most of their resources into it as it was emerging into the console world, to gain or keep a competitive advantage. Sony even had a policy against 2D games for the first two years of the PS1, causing them to reject several entries from 3rd parties which were 2D. They did allow the odd entry, specifically games around launch, presumably to beef up their launch titles, but they held a clear operating preference for 3D games. Nintendo purposefully designed the N64 to be primarily a polygonal 3D system, and didn't seem to anticipate an on-going popularity in 2D games on consoles, at least not while the 3D "revolution" was going on. Clearly they felt there was still life in the genre for handhelds, but their design decisions on the N64 were very clearly geared with polygonal 3D as its core.
It wasn't really Sony or Nintendo that changed that perception that 2D was an era of the past, at least on consoles. It was basically 3rd party developers that really changed the attitude against 2D games. Rayman was a successful platformer on the PS1. Though it was released for other platforms too, its PS1 incarnation sold about 3 million worldwide. Konami's Castlevania: Symphony of the Night released in 1997 sold about 1.25 million worldwide, with nearly 1 million of those being in the US and Europe. The success of those games, and the cultural popularity of games like Symphony of the Night over their 3D rivals (such as the N64's misunderstood and shamefully under-appreciated Castlevania 64 title), caused Sony to reconsider its criteria and allow more 2D entries, and they affected Nintendo's future developments as well: the N64's successor, the Gamecube, had options built into its design to simplify 2D game development which simply were not available on the N64.
-
ActRaiser1
- Posts: 2726
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Wii U's Overemphasis on 2d gaming
I can't speak for the public but I can speak for myself. I had zero interest in 2D games in the 5th and 6th generations. At least with anything being "new". C'mon, you had games like Goldeneye, Soul Caliber, and Halo to play.
Having limited time and resources, I sure as heck wasn't about to shell out my money on a new Mario game that rehashed prior 2D game concepts. Heck, I wasn't particularly enamored with Mario 64 or Sunshine so I sure as heck wanted nothing to do with a console NSMB.
I grew up with 2D Mario and needed a break from it.
But that's just me. Others may or may not have been in the same boat.
Having limited time and resources, I sure as heck wasn't about to shell out my money on a new Mario game that rehashed prior 2D game concepts. Heck, I wasn't particularly enamored with Mario 64 or Sunshine so I sure as heck wanted nothing to do with a console NSMB.
I grew up with 2D Mario and needed a break from it.
But that's just me. Others may or may not have been in the same boat.
-
Dogtanian1
- Posts: 83
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Wii U's Overemphasis on 2d gaming
[QUOTE=Jon]Paul, there wasn't a 2d Super Mario game released during the 5th and 6th gen, so there's no way you can say they weren't "cool", besides speculation. I already posed this question and no one seems to want to answer it. From all indications, a 2d Super Mario game would have sold like hotcakes during that time period. So basically, Nintendo wasn't giving the fans what they wanted.[/QUOTE]
What's the point in even attempting to debate with you if you can't follow your own logic? You are saying that we are wrong because we are speculating, but you are right because you are speculating. Do you not think that the principle of supply and demand would have meant that more than just a relative handful of platformers would have been published if the public had been calling for them? We are talking about a period of several years, not just a fad that lasted for a few months.
What's the point in even attempting to debate with you if you can't follow your own logic? You are saying that we are wrong because we are speculating, but you are right because you are speculating. Do you not think that the principle of supply and demand would have meant that more than just a relative handful of platformers would have been published if the public had been calling for them? We are talking about a period of several years, not just a fad that lasted for a few months.
-
Jon1
- Posts: 378
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Wii U's Overemphasis on 2d gaming
According to your logic, since there wasn't a Star Wars movie from 1983-1997 the public lost interest. Since there wasn't an Indiana Jones Movie from 1989-2008 the public lost interest. I want proof, but since there is none, you're resorting to assumptions. Apparently you don't need proof.
-
Jon1
- Posts: 378
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Wii U's Overemphasis on 2d gaming
I'm done with this thread, even if someone wants me to respond. It should be locked.
-
Atarifever1
- Posts: 3892
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Wii U's Overemphasis on 2d gaming
[QUOTE=Jon]According to your logic, since there wasn't a Star Wars movie from 1983-1997 the public lost interest. Since there wasn't an Indiana Jones Movie from 1989-2008 the public lost interest. I want proof, but since there is none, you're resorting to assumptions. Apparently you don't need proof.[/QUOTE]
And your logic is that, if I follow what you've written in this thread: Lollypop potato co-co-ca-choo.
And your logic is that, if I follow what you've written in this thread: Lollypop potato co-co-ca-choo.
-
Tron1
- Posts: 401
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Wii U's Overemphasis on 2d gaming
[QUOTE=ActRaiser]I can't speak for the public but I can speak for myself. I had zero interest in 2D games in the 5th and 6th generations. At least with anything being "new". C'mon, you had games like Goldeneye, Soul Caliber, and Halo to play.
Having limited time and resources, I sure as heck wasn't about to shell out my money on a new Mario game that rehashed prior 2D game concepts. Heck, I wasn't particularly enamored with Mario 64 or Sunshine so I sure as heck wanted nothing to do with a console NSMB.
I grew up with 2D Mario and needed a break from it.
But that's just me. Others may or may not have been in the same boat.[/QUOTE]
Pretty similar to myself, except it wasn't really 2d gaming as it was Mario. After playing more adult games like Resident Evil for generations 5 & 6 I've started to reaccept Mario games again.
It may also have to do with age as well. I'd guess you were either a preteen, teen or young adult through generations 5 & 6.
Having limited time and resources, I sure as heck wasn't about to shell out my money on a new Mario game that rehashed prior 2D game concepts. Heck, I wasn't particularly enamored with Mario 64 or Sunshine so I sure as heck wanted nothing to do with a console NSMB.
I grew up with 2D Mario and needed a break from it.
But that's just me. Others may or may not have been in the same boat.[/QUOTE]
Pretty similar to myself, except it wasn't really 2d gaming as it was Mario. After playing more adult games like Resident Evil for generations 5 & 6 I've started to reaccept Mario games again.
It may also have to do with age as well. I'd guess you were either a preteen, teen or young adult through generations 5 & 6.
-
Dogtanian1
- Posts: 83
- Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm
Wii U's Overemphasis on 2d gaming
[QUOTE=Jon]According to your logic, since there wasn't a Star Wars movie from 1983-1997 the public lost interest. Since there wasn't an Indiana Jones Movie from 1989-2008 the public lost interest. I want proof, but since there is none, you're resorting to assumptions. Apparently you don't need proof.[/QUOTE]
To compare the output of a single production company to an entire industry is bad enough. Let's forget the fact that you have already said that anyone can create 2D games even with today's production values, and how much quicker and cheaper the process was back then. If there was the demand, the games would have been released. Several thousand games were released in this period, and hardly anyone saw fit to fulfill the public's insatiable appetite for 2D platformers? Rev has already provided sales figures which immediately debunk your theory. Honestly, you are just embarrassing yourself at this point.
To compare the output of a single production company to an entire industry is bad enough. Let's forget the fact that you have already said that anyone can create 2D games even with today's production values, and how much quicker and cheaper the process was back then. If there was the demand, the games would have been released. Several thousand games were released in this period, and hardly anyone saw fit to fulfill the public's insatiable appetite for 2D platformers? Rev has already provided sales figures which immediately debunk your theory. Honestly, you are just embarrassing yourself at this point.