Gamergate

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Vexer1
Posts: 883
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Gamergate

Postby Vexer1 » October 17th, 2014, 12:54 am

Not all critics are like that through, one critic was actually fired from Gamespot for not giving a positive review to Kane and Lynch.

Movie critics are not completely immune from issues either, there was one case many years ago where a newspaper just completely made up a critic that gave positive reviews to films that otherwise got mostly negative reviews(I.E. Gigli) and things got ugly when their lie was exposed.

By contrast i've never heard of a game critic being made up.

You can't stereotype all game reviews as being paid off to write positive reviews, more often then not that's far from the truth.

 

[QUOTE]

Game culture is Mt Dew, Doritos, false social justice, and then 'death threats' from idiots on antisocial media.

[/QUOTE]

No it is not, quit talking nonsense.


Atarifever1
Posts: 3892
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Gamergate

Postby Atarifever1 » October 17th, 2014, 5:37 am

[QUOTE=Vexer]

 

You can't stereotype all game reviews as being paid off to write positive reviews, more often then not that's far from the truth.

 

 

[/QUOTE]
I wasn't.  I never did.  I argued the ones at bigger outlets have conflicts of interest that make it difficult to do great criticism.  It isn't from being bought off.  It's from spending so much time with developers and PR people, knowing where your next career likely is, and having both hyping games and reviewing them be part of the same job.  

It could all be fixed by simply having a separate review group who is different from their "preview/news" group.  

m0zart1
Posts: 3117
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Gamergate

Postby m0zart1 » October 17th, 2014, 6:30 am

[QUOTE=Atarifever]It could all be fixed by simply having a separate review group who is different from their "preview/news" group.  [/QUOTE]

Hmm.... that's precisely what the Gamespot Editorial Team did back when Greg Kasavin left the company to become a game designer: the team was divided the team up into two editors in chief: one over reviews and one over previews.  Prior to that time, Greg hovered over both of the teams, but he was so completely dedicated to keeping GS reviews as objective as possible, he worked at making that the company ethic.

The basic result of the split team with two different EiCs were that previews of Kane and Lynch were more positive than the review.  The ultimate result?  The editor in chief of the reviews, who actually wrote the review of Kane and Lynch, was fired.

The previews had prompted purchase of advertising space for the game.  The review made the company regret the decision and complain about it.  The financial head, which ultimately runs everything, made the decision to sack the reviewer because of his attitude.

I'm not sure what the answer would be, and I am not sure separation is the rule of law among critics.  Roger Ebert didn't make previews as prolifically as a game site does, but he was an industry insider, friends with many directors and actors he reviewed, and he would often interview them to get an idea of what they were doing well before he saw the finished work, and report about it.  I don't know if that generated excitement, that would depend on the reader.  He may not have purposefully generated excitement about the product, and thought of it only as straightforward reporting, but for many these constituted previews.  This didn't stop him from slamming a movie later.  He just didn't get fired for doing so.

Atarifever1
Posts: 3892
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Gamergate

Postby Atarifever1 » October 17th, 2014, 8:49 am

Interesting stuff Mozart.  I hadn't known that was what they had tried. 

Perhaps then another couple changes would need to happen along with it.  For one, perhaps try a lot harder to demonstrate to car companies, TV stations, deoderant companies, etc. how their favourite demographics are all also reading about videogames.  If less ad revenue comes from the publishers, why fire anyone over a harsh review?  If, instead of Destiny lining both sides of the site, it was Dr. Pepper, they wouldn't have to softball as much.

Second, the critics need to be put out of reach of the marketing and financial team.  Full seperation, full stop.  If someone at the top wants to get mad about a bad review, tough.  I'm sure the newspapers many movie critics write for ran ads for movies that they panned.  I doubt you've seen a lot of firings over that in that industry in decades.  Increased readership follows good content, and increased readership increases ad revenue in the end.




Vexer1
Posts: 883
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Gamergate

Postby Vexer1 » October 17th, 2014, 3:39 pm

Gamespot was normally pretty good at reviewing games without being biased and they brushed off threats from publishers and developers, but according to Jeff Gerstmann the trouble started when they got a new marketing team that didn't know to deal with the threats(they weren't happy with his 7.5 review of Ratchet and Clank: Tools of Destruction), and the infamous negative review of Kane and Lynch was the last straw.

Tron1
Posts: 401
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Gamergate

Postby Tron1 » October 17th, 2014, 5:27 pm

Other than the Critic the site I find most useful is .......

Wikipedia.

Seriously it tells me directly what I want to know; platform, download or physical format and gameplay mechanics. I will start checking some if those other sites though. I'm just tired of gamein former, gamespot and ign.

ptdebate1
Posts: 909
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Gamergate

Postby ptdebate1 » October 21st, 2014, 7:28 pm

Former Minnesota Viking Chris Kluwe weighs in on #Gamergate (warning: explicit language):

https://medium.com/the-cauldron/why-gamergaters-piss-me-the-f-off-a7e4c7f6d8a6

Segatarious1
Posts: 1110
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Gamergate

Postby Segatarious1 » October 21st, 2014, 10:06 pm

Not much class left in this old country is there?


Vexer1
Posts: 883
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Gamergate

Postby Vexer1 » October 22nd, 2014, 12:09 am

Chris is a little over-the-top but I mostly agree with what he says, people are acting like this movement will inspire a revolution in journalism or something like that, when in reality this so-called "movement" is very much insignificant in the grand scheme of things in the games industry.

 


scotland171
Posts: 816
Joined: December 31st, 1969, 7:00 pm

Gamergate

Postby scotland171 » October 24th, 2014, 9:12 am

The gamergate issue is now bubbling up from niche gamer press to mainstream media.   The Washington Post has had a series of article, one every few days, with links right on their home page (today its about Felicia Day).   The Rolling Stone did an interview with Anita Sarkeesian after the cancellation at a university due to threats. 

Some things I've thought recently about this:
1) The criminal intimidation and recklessness and spite of the pro 'gamergate' community is horrid.  There is no excuse for it, and I don't want to support it.  However, it does not mean that anything goes, any personal attack is okay, in fighting back.   If this is just a big sexist temper tantrum, as Anita Sarkeesian says it is, then the reaction should be to me more mature, not sink to their level.   Partition out the saner heads who have legitimate concerns from the disturbed people making threats of violence, but lumping them all together is just going to make things worse.   Push back on someone, and their first reaction is to push right back at you. 

2) A professional at Gawker (and I use the term 'professional' in that he holds a significant and paid position, not that his demeanor is adult or mature) tweeted that nerds should be bullied.  Supposedly it was some sort of joke, and it lead to some backlash from at least one advertiser.  The comments about it on Gawker were almost universally supportive of the snark, and quite hateful to anyone who would say the joke was in poor taste.  Comments about the Gawker tweet on other sites were more thoughtful, and generally considered Gawker to be somewhere between contemptible and inconsequential.  I know if I attempted to make a bullying joke in my workplace, it would have negative consequences. Bullying, like other forms of intimidation and violence, is not a joking matter.  Also, traditionally, nerds were people who lacked social standing, and often ridiculed for a variety of flaws such as lacking social graces, beauty, or physical skills.  The tweet seems a deliberate personal attack.  Maybe well intentioned, but its also how you fracture you own side in that people who agree that some pro gamergaters are hateful don't want to be associated with that Gawker tweet.

3) Some of this started with 'Gamers are over', since the demographics for who plays video games now includes so many people, and compared to 'moviegoer'.  Okay, but only some moviegoers are film buffs, that explore the history of the media, and the state of the industry. People who play games, but don't care its history or the industry may need a different label. I drive a car but I really do not care about the auto industry.  I use a refrigerator, but I don't care about the history of refrigerators.  We've discussed terms like casual and hardcore before, but it shows that words, and labels, do matter.  The Gamergate story, now popping up in places like the NY Times, also show that gamers are not everyone, but still the 'other' for a large part of America at least.   Renee Zellweger gets a new face, its everywhere, but gamercentric stories are still in niche publications, or storys about gamers in mainstream publications.



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