A good video to watch on the PS2 about it graphics and why it is more CRT focused/has more jaggies then rivals.

[Sonicx9]

I think the main reason is that the system just didn't have a lot of character. It was the functional but basic console that everyone had, essentially an appliance. It even looked like an appliance; entirely regardless of its playing DVDs, you could confuse the thing for a low-end DVD player. People remember the GameCube and Dreamcast fondly because they were distinctive, memorable systems; even the Xbox had a more definite image (big, powerful, serious) than the PS2. You could play a lot of cool games on the PS2 in the same way that you could watch a lot of cool movies on it - great content, but the system was just a box that let you get to it. Jack of all trades, master of none. Lowest common denominator. Other clichés - you get the idea.

I agree the PS2 was nothing special compared to the other 6th Gen Consoles and was the lowest common denominator of the bunch, the Sega Dreamcast and the Nintendo GameCube where very special and unique, and even though I do not like the Xbox brand, that was more special compared to the PS2, the only thing that totally impressed me on the PS2 was the Kingdom Hearts series, otherwise it was very plain compared to the others, but that just me.

[Stalvern]

I agree the PS2 was nothing special compared to the other 6th Gen Consoles and was the lowest common denominator of the bunch, the Sega Dreamcast and the Nintendo GameCube where very special and unique, and even though I do not like the Xbox brand, that was more special compared to the PS2, the only thing that totally impressed me on the PS2 was the Kingdom Hearts series, otherwise it was very plain compared to the others, but that just me.

That's not really what I'm saying. The PS2 had plenty of fantastic games - you aren't impressed by its Metal Gear Solid titles, or the Ratchet & Clank series, or Grand Theft Auto III and its spinoffs, or Katamari Damacy, or Ico? And that's barely scratching the surface. From an objective standpoint, the PS2's repertoire easily had the most actual substance of its generation. My point is that the PS2's enormous library and sheer ubiquity make it hard to attach a specific character to it; for the same reason that the Dreamcast's unpopularity lets people define it by the high concentration of cult classics in its small catalog, the PS2 was so huge (and had such nondescript hardware) that it's easy to see as a faceless representative of the industry as a whole instead of a distinct entity.

[ptdebate]

Something else that Sony still had the lion's share of the market of was RPGs and Metal Gear Solid. Final Fantasy was still exclusive to their platform, as were a lot of other major JRPG series such as Suikoden, Shadow Hearts, Persona, etc.

[Sonicx9]

I agree the PS2 was nothing special compared to the other 6th Gen Consoles and was the lowest common denominator of the bunch, the Sega Dreamcast and the Nintendo GameCube where very special and unique, and even though I do not like the Xbox brand, that was more special compared to the PS2, the only thing that totally impressed me on the PS2 was the Kingdom Hearts series, otherwise it was very plain compared to the others, but that just me.

That's not really what I'm saying. The PS2 had plenty of fantastic games - you aren't impressed by its Metal Gear Solid titles, or the Ratchet & Clank series, or Grand Theft Auto III and its spinoffs, or Katamari Damacy, or Ico? And that's barely scratching the surface. From an objective standpoint, the PS2's repertoire easily had the most actual substance of its generation. My point is that the PS2's enormous library and sheer ubiquity make it hard to attach a specific character to it; for the same reason that the Dreamcast's unpopularity lets people define it by the high concentration of cult classics in its small catalog, the PS2 was so huge that it's easy to see as a faceless representative of the industry as a whole instead of a distinct entity.

Sorry Stalvern, but let me say things better, I am no fan of either Metal Gear Solid series outside of the 2D MSX/GBC games because I am not a fan of realistic stealth games as they bore me, and I do not like the long drawn out cut scenes that put me to sleep, I am not a fan of Grand Theft Auto because realistic open world games are not my cup of tea and I am also not a fan of bro games either. Ratchet & Clank series and Katamari series I did like but I am not a huge fan of either series, it also did not help that I saw the not so great Ratchet & Clank movie with my friend making me less of a fan of that series. I only played Ico related successor Shadow of the Colossus and was not a fan of that game, but I will try getting The Ico & Shadow of the Colossus Collection just for Ico alone someday as I do want to play it. I am also not a fan of turn based/strategy RPGs in general, I did like Klonoa 2, but more of a fan of the first game. I refuse to play multi-platform games on the PS2 compared to the Dreamcast, GameCube, Wii, 3DS, etc versions because the PS2 graphics/load time and frame rate issues bother me similar to the N64 graphics which like the PS2, I only used it for exclusives from Nintendo and Rare and used multi-platform games for the other systems from that gen. I prefer to play PS2 games on the PS3/other systems via the HD remasters/PS2 Classic downloads with smoothing and upscaling so I will not get a headache, other versions and ports ,etc. But the only thing I fell madly in love with was the Kingdom Hearts series as the only PS2 game that is special for me in my heart. I did like Ape Escape 2 and 3, but in general I was more of a Dreamcast/GameCube guy because those where the two systems I had before the PS2, and I was spoiled by the Dreamcast/GameCube graphics and made it hard for me to stomach, similar to the N64 as that is what hurt the N64 and PS2 for me was the graphics along with the framerate problems and load times for the PS2, but that is just me. Agree/Disagree, thoughts?

[Stalvern]

Agree/Disagree, thoughts?

I disagree. I say you do like those games and are lying about it!

(Kidding, of course. Thanks for clarifying your experience.)

[Retro STrife]

I like the nostalgia debate here... We once had a topic on these forums about the "objective" best console ever made. It's a tough question, but the winning vote-getter was the PS2--and that was despite not including backward compatibility. I voted that way as well, since I think the PS2 has the strongest and most diverse lineup of games of any system. Gamers seemed to agree too -- it's the best-selling home console ever by a mile.. over 150 million sold, with the next up, PS1 and Wii, selling around 100 million.

That said, I don't have much nostalgia for it either, and I notice the same lack of interest from retro gamers that you guys do. For me, part of the issue is that I owned a Dreamcast, Xbox, and Gamecube first, and was a very late adopter of the PS2. Plus, like others mentioned, the PS2 lacked personality, and was about as plain and unsexy as a VCR. But I think another big reason for me, and retro gamers in general, is that we're just not there yet. We've talked before about each mainstream system having "two lives", its first "retail life" and its second "retro life" (which itself has a build up, a peak, and a trailing off, over a 15-20 year period). I think we're still very much in the build up phase for the Xbox, PS2, and Gamecube (the Dreamcast, on the other hand, has a head start since its retail life ended 5 years before the others). Complicating things for the PS2 is that its retail life went a few years beyond the Xbox and Gamecube... while the PS3 struggled, the PS2 kept going strong.

Right now, I think the PS1/N64 era is the one really gearing up for its peak. Despite being a huge PS1 gamer and it having the biggest personal impact on me, I had very little interest in collecting for it for many years. Yet, just recently in the past couple years, I am finding myself getting into PS1 collecting. I'm seeing the same from other retro gamers. So there's reason to believe that PS2 nostalgia will be coming down the pipeline in several years too. Nonetheless, I don't think Sony and Microsoft are anywhere near as good as Nintendo at capturing whatever it is that brings retro gamers back to the consoles 15 years later, so I don't expect it to reach that level.

[scotland]

Right now, I think the PS1/N64 era is the one really gearing up for its peak. Despite being a huge PS1 gamer and it having the biggest personal impact on me, I had very little interest in collecting for it for many years. Yet, just recently in the past couple years, I am finding myself getting into PS1 collecting. I'm seeing the same from other retro gamers. So there's reason to believe that PS2 nostalgia will be coming down the pipeline in several years too. Nonetheless, I don't think Sony and Microsoft are anywhere near as good as Nintendo at capturing whatever it is that brings retro gamers back to the consoles 15 years later, so I don't expect it to reach that level.

Funny that you mention this, as I recall reading that the N64 was in demand at retro gaming stores over the holidays. So yes, that wave of nostalgia might just be kicking in, and yet to reach the PS2.

We should also note that not only did the PS2 sell boatloads of consoles, but games as well. The Wii's problem was not in selling consoles, but in getting those buyers to continue to buy new games for it. If there were a way to measure hours of gameplay per buyer, we could have another metric. Sony and MS probably may even have that kind of information on their current systems.

Its still an issue of the PS2 relative to its fellow generation members. Just like the Intellivision never got the level of nostalgia of the 2600 (we don't have an Intellivision Flashback 8, do we...or even a Flashback 2), could it be the PS2 lags behind its neighbors? Of course, the PS2 was the 2600 of its generation. The Dreamcast got a level of nostalgia from the day of its death, being the last of once mighty Sega's consoles and an early emulation/hack/pirate machine.

You are right though -- maybe in 5 years, people will be buying PS2 Flashbacks and wearing PS2 tee shirts. For right now though, there just seems to be something about it that fails to provoke that warmth.

[ptdebate]

I think y'all are onto something.

I noticed on Amazon that a lot of PS2 games are still available brand new and not very expensive! Maybe we should get ahead of the curve and start collecting PS2.

[Sonicx9]

Agree/Disagree, thoughts?

I disagree. I say you do like those games and are lying about it!

(Kidding, of course. Thanks for clarifying your experience.)

Stalvern can you give me good PS2 exclusive game recommendations that I can not get anywhere else.

But before you recommend here are some rules:

No FPS

No turn based RPG/tactical Strategy RPG games( I only prefer Action RPG like Kingdom Hearts).

No realistic stealth games.

No realistic open world games.

No multiplatform games that are on other systems namely games on the following systems GameCube, Dreamcast, Wii, 3DS, PS Vita, PS3, PS4, Nintendo Switch as I prefer to play on those version which include ports/versions/remakes/remasters/re-releases through the PSN via the PS2 on PS3 and PS4. I will make acceptations here and their, examples being I do not like doing PC gaming and prefer to play on dedicated consoles/portables but that is just me. And I don't have anything related to the Xbox brand because I simply do not like the Xbox brand, and will prefer the PS2 versions over PSP version unless I can play them through the PS Vita and/or the PlayStation TV.

If you Stalvern can give games that are good PS2 exclusive game recommendations with the rules being followed please let me know?

[Sut]

Shinobi & Nightshade
Gran Turismo 3&4
GTA Liberty City Stories and Vice City Stories (you can’t tell me GTA games are realistic !)
R-Type Final

Baldurs Gate II Dark Alliance (action RPG)
Out Run 2 Coast 2 Coast (you don’t want an Xbox, so to me these count otherwise it’s a loaded question)

To name a few from my collection, my favourite PS2 game is Metal Gear Solid 2 but you’ve stated you don’t want to include it, but again it’s far from realistic with vampire bosses and what not.