Happy 9/9/99!

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Sonicx9
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Re: Happy 9/9/99!

Postby Sonicx9 » September 10th, 2019, 10:11 pm

Late response but here goes nothing.

VideoGameCritic wrote:I remember taking off from work, showing up at Electronics Boutique first thing when the mall opened, and being the only one there!

I didn't regret it though! Great console that continues to be one of my favorites.


It is a great system, this system was my main to collect for before the Nintendo Switch came in as it my favorite Retro console to collect games for.

Gleebergloben123 wrote:I was working in Tokyo during this time. I remember reading an interview with the company president in either The Daily Yomiyuri or the Japan Times right before the Dreamcast was released. One thing that struck me from the interview is the company president basically said “This is it. If Dreamcast doesn’t succeed we’re done”. Not in so many words but that was the gist of it. For some reason after reading this I really wanted to see them succeed even though I never owned a Sega console. Seems like a good system, just wasn’t meant to be.


What years where you at Tokyo Japan during that time frame and how was your experience their during that period. Also how was cigarette smoke in Japan during that time period, because it was not so bad in my two trips in 2016 and 2018. Although the arcade are rather cigarette smoky unfortunately. But did you find any good arcades that where not a problem with cigarette smoke?

Matchstick wrote:I don't understand this comparison. I never will. You've made it on several other posts and it just makes zero sense.

Dreamcast was the most powerful and advanced home console ever produced at the time of its release. Its launch games were full of recent arcade ports and fresh IPs, and seeing them in motion had people drooling. Seeing Ready 2 Rumble, NFL 2K, and Soul Calibur in person for the first time were jaw-dropping moments, and were all far and away superior to anything else on the home console market at the time from a graphics standpoint.

Meanwhile, the Switch is the least powerful console of its generation, with its major launch game being a port of a last-gen Wii U title. The Switch has been a runaway financial success while the Dreamcast was a complete fiscal disaster. You can (and are encouraged to) take the Switch with you wherever you go, while your Dreamcast needs to be firmly anchored to a wall socket. The Switch is black. The Dreamcast was white.

They. Are. Nothing. Alike.



For that first point I only compared the Switch and Dreamcast in terms of being fun/unique and different around the time period that things were getting stagnant in the console market example the PS1 and N64 where very stagnant compared to the Dreamcast, and the PS4 and Xbox One where stagnant compared to the Switch, so those two systems where a big breath of fresh air in a mostly dull time frame.

Matchstick wrote:
Anyway...

I didn't get one on launch day (I couldn't find one anywhere!) but got one shortly thereafter. Got House of the Dead 2 and a few horribly inaccurate light guns as my first purchases. Followed that up with Airforce Delta and NFL 2K. A buddy down the street had Soul Calibur and we played it every damn day for months, right through Xmas and the new year.

Dreamcast was the last home console I was "all in" for. Its quick death left me totally holding the bag, as I had invested so heavily in the console, accessories, and games, then felt totally kicked to the curb when Sega pulled support for it. Yes, that PS2 hype train was something else, but I was never a believer.

I didn't want a PS2. I had a Dreamcast with a huge library of games that I already held near and dear. It didn't matter. As soon as the PS2 came out, the DC was dead in the water. Thanks, gaming press! I never bought another console new, around its launch window, ever again. I now play it safe and wait a few years, making sure the system has some legs under it before I invest in one. In that regard, my time as a Dreamcast owner was quite the learning experience.

Maybe I'll fire up the DC tonight for old time's sake. Maybe not. The hurt is still pretty real with that one.


Unlike most people, I got my Dreamcast in 2001 when the system was mostly dead and dried up. And mind you I was not big in the system around the time frame as that system was not big in terms of platformers outside of a few games here and their. So I got a GameCube as that system was way better then Dreamcast in terms of platformers. But anyways, I did not get heavily into the Dreamcast until after I bought the amazing Dreamcast port of Rayman 2, which put the lame PS1 version to shame. And I became a big collector sense then with over 100 games mostly domestic US and some Japan only and 1 PAL exclusive games.

Stalvern wrote:The only Nintendo system that I'd compare the Dreamcast to is the GameCube. Technically advanced but hampered by weird proprietary disks that weren't DVDs, weak on multiplatform games but strong on exclusives. They both misjudged the market around Y2K in the same way and paid the same price, if much more dearly in the Dreamcast's case (and, to be fair to the Dreamcast, the deck was already stacked against it by its 1998 launch and the bridges that Sega had burned with the Saturn).


I know I was rushed in comparison, but GameCube is not a bad comparison as that system was the only dedicated video game company made product not counting Sega Dreamcast as PlayStation and Xbox where both conglomerate companies Sony and Microsoft case. And true the use of GD-Roms and mini GameCube disc hurt 3rd party support along with the lesser amounts of buttons. But even then both Dreamcast and GameCube had decent 3rd party support, but there where holdbacks like EA not supporting Dreamcast, little to no Rockstar and Square Enix support on GameCube. Man it was much more interesting back then as if you look at PS4 and Xbox One the hardware is mostly identical thanks to X86 AMD shared CPU/GPU tech minus subtle differences like esram on Xbox One case.

ASalvaro wrote:love the Dreamcast and it still holds up well today


Indeed, way better than the mediocre and overrated N64.

Voor
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Re: Happy 9/9/99!

Postby Voor » September 11th, 2019, 3:53 pm

Ouch man, the 64 is probably my 2nd favorite system and have the most fond memories of. I don’t care about library size and exclusive titles, etc. To me, it was the first “party console” and I had tons of fun times with friends on Goldeneye, Smash, MK64, Mario Party, etc. Plus Mario 64 and Ocarina is Time were incredibly successful risks in design that redefined two established franchises.

I’d never call the 64 overrated. It’s perfectly rated. Lol.

Sonicx9
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Re: Happy 9/9/99!

Postby Sonicx9 » September 11th, 2019, 8:47 pm

Voor wrote:Ouch man, the 64 is probably my 2nd favorite system and have the most fond memories of. I don’t care about library size and exclusive titles, etc. To me, it was the first “party console” and I had tons of fun times with friends on Goldeneye, Smash, MK64, Mario Party, etc. Plus Mario 64 and Ocarina is Time were incredibly successful risks in design that redefined two established franchises.

I’d never call the 64 overrated. It’s perfectly rated. Lol.


My problems with the N64 is it has aged the worst as far as early 3D 5th Gen consoles onwards go, and most of that comes down to poor/choppy framerates and blurry grainy visuals that bug me and make me vomit compared to the much crisper 3D PS1 visuals. Heck the N64 is the least Nintendo like console in the companies history due to it being more focused on western dev games and FPS titles and mind you I am not fan of FPS games as it one of my least favorite video game genres, heck I view it as a prototype of the Xbox family because of the N64 being a big FPS console. True the exclusives from Nintendo and Rare where great and the best part of the console, but if that all N64 offered was Nintendo/Rare exclusives along with FPS and wrestling games it was lackluster compared to the PS1 and Saturn for that matter. In fact both PS1 and Sega Saturn have aged way better due to having more 60FPS 2D and simple 3D games along with more stable 30FPS 3D games, something the N64 was weak at, although that bottleneck was the carts because if N64 was CD based it would have put the PS1 to shame, but all well.

And what funny is Sega Saturn was GameCube of that gen, N64 was OG Xbox and PS1 was PS2 how ironic, especially in Japan where N64 was dead last just like all of the Xbox systems in that country, although N64 did better than that family thanks to Nintendo 1st party games, but it was not enough as Sega Saturn sold more in Japan then the N64 likely due to having a more Japanese focused library as that what doomed the N64 their especially with the lack of JRPG games on the 64.
Last edited by Sonicx9 on September 11th, 2019, 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Matchstick
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Re: Happy 9/9/99!

Postby Matchstick » September 11th, 2019, 8:49 pm

Voor wrote:I’d never call the 64 overrated. It’s perfectly rated. Lol.


I love this comment.

Not sure why the swipe at the N64 was necessary, anyway. This is a topic about the Dreamcast. If somebody says the DC still holds up today, that's all well and good. To shoehorn in a "better than the N64" comment, eh, I don't really get that. If we wanted to talk about how well / poorly the N64 has held up, we can start a new thread and go from there.

But, since that can of worms was opened...

I've always looked at it like this: in the mid to late 90's, if you mainly played games with your friends or family, then you probably have pretty fond memories of the N64. If you mostly played games solo, then I'd imagine you were more partial to the PlayStation.

Me, I had the N64 and rarely, if ever, played games alone. I only did it to unlock more content to use for multiplayer, like how beating GoldenEye unlocked a bunch more characters and maps or winning the championship belts in the WCW / NWO wrestling games unlocked more wrestlers. Nearly every game I had was 4-player, and rarely a day went by during that era that I wasn't meeting up with my buds after work and school to throw down on some multiplayer action.

I feel like it's the "cool kid thing to do" to hate on the N64. It gets a lot of heat on the Internet nowadays from what I've noticed. But for me, I've never been more of a multiplayer gamer than I was during the N64 days, and to this day, it remains the go-to system whenever I have friends, family, or relatives over.

Most recently, me, my wife, her sister, and their dad were all playing Mario Kart 64 together during a family get-together, and it was a riot! No need to explain the controls or have a tutorial, just turn the system on and let it rip. Even my niece and nephew (both under the age of 10) were getting in on it, and we were passing the controllers around up until it was time to put the kids to bed.

The Critic speaks lovingly of his fondness for Warlords on the 2600, and while Mario Kart 64 may be a bit more complicated, it still has that timeless pick-up-and-play feeling that few games can match. Several other popular N64 multiplayer games are in the same boat, as are plenty of unpopular ones, too (BattleTanx!!). The N64 may not be perfect, but it's got that going for it, which is nice.

Sonicx9
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Joined: April 27th, 2015, 6:37 pm

Re: Happy 9/9/99!

Postby Sonicx9 » September 11th, 2019, 8:59 pm

Matchstick wrote:
I love this comment.

Not sure why the swipe at the N64 was necessary, anyway. This is a topic about the Dreamcast. If somebody says the DC still holds up today, that's all well and good. To shoehorn in a "better than the N64" comment, eh, I don't really get that. If we wanted to talk about how well / poorly the N64 has held up, we can start a new thread and go from there.

But, since that can of worms was opened...

I've always looked at it like this: in the mid to late 90's, if you mainly played games with your friends or family, then you probably have pretty fond memories of the N64. If you mostly played games solo, then I'd imagine you were more partial to the PlayStation.

Me, I had the N64 and rarely, if ever, played games alone. I only did it to unlock more content to use for multiplayer, like how beating GoldenEye unlocked a bunch more characters and maps or winning the championship belts in the WCW / NWO wrestling games unlocked more wrestlers. Nearly every game I had was 4-player, and rarely a day went by during that era that I wasn't meeting up with my buds after work and school to throw down on some multiplayer action.

I feel like it's the "cool kid thing to do" to hate on the N64. It gets a lot of heat on the Internet nowadays from what I've noticed. But for me, I've never been more of a multiplayer gamer than I was during the N64 days, and to this day, it remains the go-to system whenever I have friends, family, or relatives over.

Most recently, me, my wife, her sister, and their dad were all playing Mario Kart 64 together during a family get-together, and it was a riot! No need to explain the controls or have a tutorial, just turn the system on and let it rip. Even my niece and nephew (both under the age of 10) were getting in on it, and we were passing the controllers around up until it was time to put the kids to bed.

The Critic speaks lovingly of his fondness for Warlords on the 2600, and while Mario Kart 64 may be a bit more complicated, it still has that timeless pick-up-and-play feeling that few games can match. Several other popular N64 multiplayer games are in the same boat, as are plenty of unpopular ones, too (BattleTanx!!). The N64 may not be perfect, but it's got that going for it, which is nice.



It was Voor doing not me about the N64, and about the N64 it was very multiplayer focused just like how OG Xbox was for it big library of multiplayer games which both consoles had. It seems to me N64 is a love it or hate it system like how the Xbox family is as they also have a big love hate relationship depending on who you ask.

Voor
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Re: Happy 9/9/99!

Postby Voor » September 11th, 2019, 9:33 pm

I believe you called it “mediocre and overrated”.

It totally get if someone says it’s aged poorly from a technical standpoint, but that’s significantly less important to me than being accessible and just plain fun, and from that perspective, it holds up very well if you ask me.

But it’s cool we have different opinions. Keeps things interesting!

By the way, I’m not a FPS guy either. The only 64 FPS I had was Goldeneye. It’s kind of weird that for one of my favorite systems of all time, I probably had 8-12 games total for it.

Sonicx9
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Re: Happy 9/9/99!

Postby Sonicx9 » September 12th, 2019, 12:36 pm

Voor wrote:I believe you called it “mediocre and overrated”.

It totally get if someone says it’s aged poorly from a technical standpoint, but that’s significantly less important to me than being accessible and just plain fun, and from that perspective, it holds up very well if you ask me.

But it’s cool we have different opinions. Keeps things interesting!

By the way, I’m not a FPS guy either. The only 64 FPS I had was Goldeneye. It’s kind of weird that for one of my favorite systems of all time, I probably had 8-12 games total for it.


If you watch some of DF Retro videos on the N64 it track record for framerate was shaky compared to PS1 and Saturn, I am guessing it the carts that held back the frame rate.

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Stalvern
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Re: Happy 9/9/99!

Postby Stalvern » September 12th, 2019, 2:04 pm

Sonicx9 wrote:If you watch some of DF Retro videos on the N64 it track record for framerate was shaky compared to PS1 and Saturn, I am guessing it the carts that held back the frame rate.

Storage medium is completely irrelevant to processing. The main issues were poorly optimized GPU microcode and significant RAM latency.

Sonicx9
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Re: Happy 9/9/99!

Postby Sonicx9 » September 12th, 2019, 5:18 pm

Stalvern wrote:
Sonicx9 wrote:If you watch some of DF Retro videos on the N64 it track record for framerate was shaky compared to PS1 and Saturn, I am guessing it the carts that held back the frame rate.

Storage medium is completely irrelevant to processing. The main issues were poorly optimized GPU microcode and significant RAM latency.


Man, no wonder the so called more powerful N64 suffered compared to PS1 and Sega Saturn in framerate, and even though PS1 and N64 are both have MIPS based CPUs, it the badly optimized GPU and ram latency that held it back, as most N64 3rd party multi console games run rather poorly compared to PS1 and sometimes Sega Saturn versions depending on the game. Heck even 3rd party games made first for N64 like Turok 2 runs poorly worse then 1 considering the 1st game was a mostly stable 30FPS which is not common on N64 due to it badly optimized hardware. But then again we have other badly optimized hardware such as 3DS (slow ARM frame buffer CPU and mediocre dev kits), Ouya (ruined by Android operating system which is terrible for games.) Sega 32X (held back by the outdated 1988 based Mega Drive working in conjunction combined with the 32X alone is too slow on it own as it all software assembly based for that part of the hardware.) Xbox One (the infamous esram setup and bad dev kits.), and Steam Machine (held back by Linux which is not as adaptable as Windows as that going to be the big hold back for Google Stadia and Atari VCS 3rd party supporyt as most games on PC are windows based.), etc.

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Stalvern
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Re: Happy 9/9/99!

Postby Stalvern » September 12th, 2019, 9:41 pm

Worth pointing out is that while later games often used custom microcode for better performance, developers picked up a nasty habit of pushing the machine over its limits. A game like Perfect Dark doesn't have a bad frame rate because of poor optimization (far from it!) but because of a deliberate decision to bite off just a bit more than the system can chew. Turok 2 on the N64 actually has slightly more sophisticated graphics than the PC version's, but it pays with its frame rate.


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