For Reviews and Purists: Where does Emulation Begin?

[scotland171]

I am not trying to poke a hornets nest about morality / legality of emulation here.  Just technically, where does emulation begin?  This comes to mind as the Critic reviews Gameboy titles, and there are so many ways to play these games, including as one poster pointed out, pretty well on your 3DS. Also, some of us really want the full 'back in the day' experience.

In general, I thought Dave's policy was 'original hardware', although he felt free to use whatever controller worked best.   Yet with the Gameboy reviews, things are getting murky.  Maybe given the review scale of A+ to F-, there is not enough granularity to matter, or maybe you think it does.

For you to play an Atari 2600 game on your colecovision expansion, its not emulation.  Colecovision cloned the 2600, literally.  It should be the same experience as playing on an Atari 2600 or a Coleco Gemini or a Colecovision expansion.

For you to play that Atari 2600 game on your Atari 7800, the 7800 goes into 2600 backwards compatibility mode. While it has much the same chipset, it does have to limit things and use other ways to get there.  So, even beginning with the Atari 7800, its likely not perfect emulation for the Atari 2600 (Atarifever and others can chime in here)

For you to play your Sega Master System game on your Genesis with Power Base Converter, it uses a pass through to the Z80 co-processor that was the main co-processor in the SMS.   It should be pretty good again, but is it perfect? Is the speed right?  How is the sound?  Going to the Genesis controller would probably change things to, but Dave seems okay with that.

I think a pass through is also how the GBA/SP works as well for Gameboy emulation.  Yet even there the SP has a backlight, and that is going to skew color saturation.  Does that matter?  How is the speed and sound here too?

If you have a 'famiclone', then you again have some chipset trying to duplicate the famicom, but it may differ from machine to machine.   Modern ones may have an "NES on a Chip" design.   The modern Flashback 2 emulated the Atari hardware differently than the later Flashback 3's and 4's.  The Retron series also presents both utility, but issues like this as well.   I don't think we'll see Dave reviewing SNES games based on playing them on Retron 5.

When Dave uses that Super Game Boy for the Gameboy reviews, and that SNES adapter has the Gameboy CPU in there, but supposedly runs a trifle fast.  Its also using SNES controllers obviously, but again, Dave doesn't care about that so much.  The Game Boy Player in the Gamecube is like the Super Game Boy, I believe, containing the GBA chipset.  Maybe not - maybe its just close to the chipset with some differences.  Anyone know?
 
And so on.  By the time we get to the 3DS playing Gameboy games (not DS games, but GB games), its down to pure software emulation, right?   Maybe its good solid emulation, good legal Nintendo emulation, buts it still just software emulation.  If the door is open for emulation, then there are all sorts of devices and emulators that come into play. Dave should likely stay away from any emulation, including on the WiiU or 3DS, if the policy is for original hardware.

If the Critic wants to say 'and this is how good the game is' where is the line?  (In particular, where is the line for Gameboy games, but in general, where is the line?)

[Sut1]

Excellent post Scotland.
Similar to the critic I have an original brick Game Boy, but I use my SP mainly due to the clearer/cleaner image. I do this as it enchances my experience, as the op asks where do we draw the line ? Should PS2 reviews be based on the superior HD rereleases ?
If it's legal emulation is it better to review games on that ? Why is that any different to reviewing from an illegal rom ?
I know IGN review classic games on Virtual Console and base them for the original console but with a disclaimer stating version reviewed is Virtual Console.

Personally I just like reading the reviews as long as I'm aware of what it's being reviewed on, however I do like it when the review references how the controls felt on the original system. For example you cannot replicate Channel F or Wii controls on another system.

[ptdebate1]

Out of all the methods of playing retro games, Virtual Console has the highest ratio of ease of use : AV quality. To achieve comparable quality with most original hardware (SNES, Genesis for example) you need RGB cables and a very expensive upscaling device (usually around $400) OR an old RGB monitor (~$80). What I'm referring to here is pure, undiluted and accurate color paired with sharp, crisp image quality. The advantage of using original hardware with an RGB CRT is faster response times vs. modern progressive scan displays.

In the case of NES and TG-16, there's no way to achieve image quality comparable to Virtual Console without extensively modding the original hardware and following one of the paths listed above.

My point is: Virtual Console is a very good way to enjoy retro games. In some ways, it exceeds the capabilities of the original hardware. For example: older consoles can't render games in progressive scan. When you plug them into a progressive scan display, the TV must deinterlace the image--image quality greatly suffers as a result. This image processing is also the cause of the input lag that many experience. None of these issues exist in Virtual Console--the emulator shell produces an image that ALL displays can recognize with no additional processing necessary.

[scotland171]

I agree that virtual console has many advantages over original hardware.  Emulation often has advantages in quality of output, save states, using better input devices, creating screenshots or videos, etc.   That is why I for one am very interested in the Retron 5.  In fact, you could create a new thread on why retro gaming on modern tech rocks, and I would be part of that discussion.  This discussion though is if Dave wants to avoid emulation, at what point has he crossed over?

To use an analogy about staying away from emulation and where the line is, let's imagine you want to travel by boat. There are lots of ways to do it.  Modern technology will give you satellite navigation, cushy seats, electricity, and powerful engines.  Older tech was a dugout canoe to primitive sailboats to beautiful sailing clippers.  For a time, sailing boats still had provisions for rowers, then at a different time, paddle wheel boats still had masts and spars for sails.  In fact, navies to this day may keep an old sailing ship for training - because they see value in have 'sailors', ie, knowing how to sail. Most sailboats above 20 feet would have an engine to help them out, but primarily the sailors in them want to sail and use the motor only when they have to. They realize that the motor is 'better', but its not what they want.  They use it only when they have to, otherwise, may as well get a motorboat and give up the pretense of being a sailor.  There's the line for being a sailor.

Few are those that want to make their own dugout canoe anymore (that would be like building a kit Altair 8800 computer in the mid 70s), but some of us do still see the magic in the age of sail in video games (playing Legend of Zelda on a sideloading NES on a Panasonic 19" ColorPilot with automatic color tuning).   Where is the line? Moving to a modern tv?  Probably not.  Playing it on the Retron 5 - definitely crossed the line.  So, where is the line?

[C64_Critic1]

I think emulation in general is a good thing because it can allow people to experience and enjoy games they may not otherwise be able to enjoy.  Not everyone can have (or wants to have) an original console of every system they want to play games on.  Nor is it always possible to purchase the original games even if you have the hardware to play them on. 

However I don't think emulation can ever completely match the same experience as playing an original game on the original hardware with the original controllers.  In fact, using my most recent C64 obsession as an example, Red Storm Rising, I don't think it's even remotely practical to try to play it in an emulator because without the original keyboard overlay and keyboard it would be incredibly difficult to execute specific commands with split-second timing by simply memorizing what keys are mapped to what functions.

[wgames771]

That's a really good point, C64 Critic.

[VideoGameCritic]

To me, the difference between playing a Game Boy title on the original system versus an SP is like playing an SNES game on a RF/black&white TV versus an S-Video/color TV.

In both cases we are reviewing the exact same game; it's just that one enhances the visuals.  I think that's okay and I think it's fair to review the game like that.

I'm less sure about the Virtual Console which may modify the game in other ways.

[Tron1]

[QUOTE=videogamecritic]To me, the difference between playing a Game Boy title on the original system versus an SP is like playing an SNES game on a RF/black&white TV versus an S-Video/color TV.

In both cases we are reviewing the exact same game; it's just that one enhances the visuals.  I think that's okay and I think it's fair to review the game like that.

I'm less sure about the Virtual Console which may modify the game in other ways.[/QUOTE]

Playing gba games on the Gameboy GameCube player looks very different from playing it on a gba. The colors are a little blurred and stretched. Perhaps even more importantly using a GameCube controller is vastly different from the gba layout.

[Paul1231]

I have completely transitioned to emulating most games on my Ouya, and playing them with a PS3 Controller. At this point I really feel like worrying about ways that a good emulator might change a game is sort of a grasping-at-straws way of self-justifying our game collections to ourselves. If there is anything affected by the emulator these days it is extremely rare and extremely obvious to the end user, like a missing soundtrack or something. The convenience of having every game I own from the 2600 to the N64 right there at my fingertips, with ultra-sharp visuals, is so incredibly awesome that I will never go back. I play games that I have played hundreds of times on my original consoles and if there was a single pixel out of place I would notice it. The only time there is ever an issue is on the N64 emulator, and it's usually that the game just simply doesn't emulate, so you don't play it. I hear people complain that the colors are off or different and I have to laugh. If anything, you are seeing the way the colors SHOULD look, instead of the fuzzy radio frequency colors we used to see through our old analog TVs. Certainly I understand the feel of playing the game on the original console, but for casual play where I just want to sit back and enjoy the game without having to get out my bins full of cartridges, emulation is awesome.

[HardcoreSadism1]

Emulation is no problem if there are reliability issues with authentic hardware. Take Colecovision or Atari 5200 for example, heck what if we could emulate all of their power supply faults!

Of course authenticity isn't replaceable, but nostalgia is. The Sega CD is a good system to collect, but that aftermarket price doesn't always add up to its wear and tear.

The GP2x Wiz is a fantastic platform for emulation, plus I have every 2600 game in its library on a card.